Comments on: Why is there freedom of religion but then separation of Church and state?

By: quietranter

quietranter — Thu, 03 Dec 2009 21:59:59 +0000

It because of freedom of religion that there is a separation of church and state. Religious freedom is everyone's equal right to conscience without state interference. Entangling church and state undermine that freedom gets undermined. If the government favors a particular religion and it's not your religion you become a second class citizen who's less equal than those who follow the recognized religion. If my prayers get said in public schools and if my religion is displayed at city hall while yours isn't you're being discriminated against.
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By: Kevin k

Kevin k — Thu, 03 Dec 2009 21:34:59 +0000

The govenernment cannot endorse one religion over the others. Public schools as a government agency must adhere to this law. Private schools may do as they please reguarding religion. In a public school, you are allowed time to reflect and pray silently; however, this does not cut into class time. If you feel that you are being taught things that go against your religious up bringing, talk to the teacher after class. Scientific fact and historical records can be taught. Sorry, if that disagrees with your faith. Government may endorse moral behavior (laws against murder and stealing), so long as it is not done from a religious standpoint. Religions cannot expect to go against established law without suffering legal ramifications.
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By: iraqisax

iraqisax — Thu, 03 Dec 2009 21:29:59 +0000

The reason that there seems to be a conflict between these two phrases from the same Amendment (First) is because of the erroneous interpretation given by the Supreme Court.
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion…means that the Congress shall not establish a state church, and use tax money to fund it. It does not mean that anything that is publicly owned or funded has to be hostile or even neutral towards recognizing God. So there you have it: no national church.
The second part: …or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, that is exactly what is happening when we hear someone say that you can’t have a prayer, because this is public property. Of course you can. You can pray anywhere and anytime you wish to. And the First Amendment prevents the state from interfering with you. I challenge anyone to stop me from praying anytime I wish to. By the same token, the state cannot compel you to pray. All restriction is on the state. There is NO restriction on the individual.
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By: Mark D

Mark D — Thu, 03 Dec 2009 21:01:59 +0000

"… The Court has, in fact, read the two religion clauses so expansively as to bring the prohibition of the establishment of religion into direct conflict with the guarantee of free exercise. The classic example is Wisconsin v. Yoder [406 U.S. 205, (1972)]. Amish parents objected to the state’s school attendance laws, stating that their religion prohibited them from allowing their children to attend public school after the eighth grade. The Wisconsin statute required attendance to the age of sixteen and was in no way aimed at religion. The Supreme Court found the law a violation of religious freedom and held that the Amish children need not comply with it as other children must. Quite aside from the question of whether the decision was right or wrong, it makes plain that the religion clauses have been brought into conflict with each other. Had Wisconsin legislated an exemption for the Amish, that favoritism clearly would have been held a forbidden establishment of religion. Thus, in the name of the free exercise of religion, the Supreme Court, according to its own criteria, itself established a religion."
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Robert Bork, "The Tempting of America," (1990), pp. 247-248.

By: bookmom

bookmom — Thu, 03 Dec 2009 20:51:59 +0000

You are free to worship however you choose.

The government is not allowed to establish a religion (or show preference to a religion) in order to make sure that your right to freely worship is not eroded.

While you can say what you want in a school and worship as you please, a school (a PUBLIC school) is not supposed to support any one religion over another.

Hope this helps.
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By: Jeff P

Jeff P — Thu, 03 Dec 2009 20:06:59 +0000

Freedom of religion and separation of church and State are the same thing. You’re allowed to practice your religion in a school, you’re just not allowed to try and force it on others. but if you want to wear a rosary, or pray towards Mecca during school (prayer 5 ties a day) If the government was allowed to force a specific religion, it isn’t freedom of religion for these it’s being forced upon, is it?

As for those who would say it doens’t exist, I would ask them who Madison listened to when drafting the bill of Rights. Thomas Jefferson, who later praised the 1st amendment as "erecting a stone wall between church and state. the Supreme Court looks for Founder intent often n cases dealing with the bill of Rights, and that’s where that comes from. Jefferson.
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By: pj_gal

pj_gal — Thu, 03 Dec 2009 19:55:59 +0000

We have freedom of religion because the founding father’s remembered what it was like in England to either attend the state sponsored church or be considered an outcast of sorts. If you were not a member in good standing in the Church of England then you could not hold a government job or many other things. The English fought civil wars over religion/denominations. The pilgrims were outcasts since they were not members of the Church of England and English authorities wanted to remove them.
The separation of Church and state was for the same reason. The monarch of England was and is also the head of the Church of England which is the state sponsored or authorized denomination there.
Hope this helps.
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By: TheBlueHorizon

TheBlueHorizon — Thu, 03 Dec 2009 19:41:59 +0000

Freedom of religion (in the government sense) means that the government cannot lend its power and / or authority to any religion, in other words, there is a separation of Church and state. Public schools, funded by the government, cannot properly teach or lend their authority to any religion or group of religions over any other. Private schools and home schooling are not barred from integrating religion with their curriculum as long as government funds are not used to run them.
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By: paperback_writer2003

paperback_writer2003 — Thu, 03 Dec 2009 19:17:59 +0000

Because when any particular religious faith gets sanction by the state, then all other faiths suffer.

If you’re referrng to prayer in school, the chief problem is a matter of whose prayers get said. And the very language of prayer is denominational in nature. So the best thing to do is keep it out of the schools or the courthouse walls.

Look, nobody is clapping you in irons for practicing whatever faith you have. Just enjoy it in peace and be glad.
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By: Cornelius O

Cornelius O — Thu, 03 Dec 2009 18:48:59 +0000

this principle of separation was made to protect the church from being controlled by politicians and them being integrated. The founders ddin't want a politicized church like the state churches of Europe, ie the Roman Catholic church. it is a principle to keep religion free from interference from politics as much as possible.
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