Does separation of church and state preclude freedom of religion?
Posted on December 21st, 2009 by admin
I understand the separation of church and state and its’ importance. However, if college students are getting reprimanded for having prayer groups in university dorm rooms, children are prohibited from talking about God (or whatever they believe in) at school, or people are prohibited to display signs of their religion on lockers or desks at work, haven’t we trampled on their freedom of religion as well? Where’s the line?
Good question with many possible answers!!
But I tend to view religious expression along the same lines as cigarette smoking. It seems that you can do what you like, but if it’s offensive to someone else, the non-smoker has priority.
This is a very crude model, but maybe you see what i mean.
December 21st, 2009 at 5:59 am
too true, Britain is far more compassionate in terms of that, they allow prayer groups because they believe in freedom of …many things. I thnk America is becoming very dictoral…trampling on peoples freedom….
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December 21st, 2009 at 6:31 am
Nothing above has happened on a regular basis, if at all. If the events you mentioned above did happen, then those faithful were attacking the rights of other people. Peaceful, personal faith is by no way condemned by the Government. However, if people get out of hand then they are attacking others relgious rights.
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December 21st, 2009 at 6:37 am
Freedom of Religion is vital, the problem comes in when your (or mine) beliefs crowd someone else. Or make someone uncomfortable in an environment (School/Work) where they need to be.
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December 21st, 2009 at 6:45 am
All separation of church and state means is that there can be no religion forced upon people by the government. It doesn’t mean people can’t express their religion as they choose.
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December 21st, 2009 at 7:11 am
First and foremost there is nothing in the U.S. Constitution or the Bill of Rights about separation of church and state. That quote is from a letter written by Thomas Jefferson some time after the Constitution was written. Then some supreme court judge used the quote in his wrongful court decision and people have bought into it ever since. But even if that was in the constitution that does not say freedom from religion as what many are wanting it to mean. So my answer is no it does not preclude freedom of religion. People should be free to practice their religion where and when they choose. In this country they are so long as their religion is not based in Christianity.
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December 21st, 2009 at 7:28 am
It should not, but in America lately it often has.
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December 21st, 2009 at 7:46 am
That is a tough one, and I think we go too far to be fair to everyone. I think we all should be able to express our religion… including people who are not Christian. Unfortunately, most Americans believe that only Christians have the right to religious expression. Would you allow days off for the Hindu festival of Diwali? What about Jewish prayer groups in school? What about engraving Muslim prayers in front of public buildings?
If we can accept the beliefs (or non-beliefs) of other people, then maybe it will be a lot easier to allow everyone to practice their religion in public.
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December 21st, 2009 at 7:59 am
You have a Constitutional right to to have prayer groups within public, or any other area you have authority over, which includes dorm rooms on public property that you have paid to occupy.
Children have a Constitutional right to discuss god at public schools during times when general discussions are permitted (lunch, recess, etc.), as long as such discussions are not compelled via school rules on others.
Children do not own their lockers, so they do not have a fundamental right to display signs of any kind on them, religious or otherwise. However, if such displays are generally permitted, then religious displays can not be discriminated against without 1st Amendment violation.
Desks at work are generally private property. It’s the right of the employer to say what can and can’t be displayed. It’s not illegal for an employer to discriminate against religious displays, even just for a specific religion, regardless of their policies regarding displays in general.
The line is pretty simple. You have a right to do whatever you want regarding your religion on your property, which includes your body (and the speech it produces). You do not have a legal right to promote your religion at the expense of others, which includes using public property, or private property if the owner doesn’t want you to.
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December 21st, 2009 at 8:09 am
If you read the Constitution you will know separation of church and state is not true. You are correct in that the Supreme Court has accepted one clause for religion and tossed out the clause on freedom of religion. The proper perspective is to realize the definition of religion and that the founding fathers did not want one religion dominating others as it was in England with persecuting other denominations.
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December 21st, 2009 at 8:39 am
Good question with many possible answers!!
But I tend to view religious expression along the same lines as cigarette smoking. It seems that you can do what you like, but if it’s offensive to someone else, the non-smoker has priority.
This is a very crude model, but maybe you see what i mean.
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December 21st, 2009 at 9:14 am
If you swat a mosquito on a college campus, someone will protest your action. They are nests of politically correct, extreme liberalism.
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December 21st, 2009 at 9:42 am
If it’s discriminatory, it should be banned, even if it’s "trampling on their freedom of religion," not to mention freedom of speech. What I mean by that is that if only certain religions are being allowed those prayer groups. Or if only certain gods are approved of as appropriate for talking about in public school (let private schools do what they will). For children, feeling the disapproval of a teacher or peers at school because they are simply talking about their religion like anyone else can be intimidating, especially as the reactions can be very bad if they don’t follow a mainstream religion. Religious items on display in lockers and desks should be allowed, as long as it’s not something like "Kill the Christians/Jews/Pagans/Muslims" or something like that, but it doesn’t actually have anything to do with the separation of church and state, unless you work for the government. That’s a different story.
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December 21st, 2009 at 9:49 am
sad, isn’t it? This is why society will collapse on itself with great magnitude shortly…..like a dying star.
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December 21st, 2009 at 10:36 am
The question of church and state of course is "who’s church?". Most people who claim to want Theocracy really want an ecclesiocracy, a rule by their particular church. Until He begins to rule, we are much better off with the church state separation.
The same point stated a different way is that we need separation of church and state, not separation of God and state.
I’ll put a picture up, but I’m just an average looking, late middle age white guy. Just look at the line at the post office or grocery store and you’ll see me.
James H.
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December 21st, 2009 at 10:45 am
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