What’s your opinion on freedom of speech, poetically speaking?
Posted on February 5th, 2010 by admin
If someone has freedom of speech to post a poem and ask for comments on it, is it double standards to seek to deprive someone else of expressing their opinion on it – either by blocking or reporting them. A public forum is either one thing or the other – it can’t be both. An excitable foreign youth, with delusions of adequacy, is currently trying to incite a riot – must be his diet. Hey, that almost rhymes. Comments and observations please.
Aragorn, I do not follow anyone’s poems around – I simply sometimes respond to various people whose names I recognize. As most, if not all of you, have contacts to whom you always respond, for you or anyone to accuse another person of following anyone around is ridiculous. On another response, you accused me of reporting all of Arwen’s poems. As you had no way of knowing who was responsible, such an accusation was thoroughly irresponsible. In effect, by stating as a fact something which was untrue, you lied. On that same response, you also called me a b*st*rd – now you are denying it. You are nothing but a liar through and through – and certainly no gentleman. As far as I’m concerned, her poetry is mince and I reserve the right to say so. If she can’t handle one negative comment amongst all the positive (’though deluded) ones she gets, then her ego needs reining in. Also, you are again lying – Arwen has commented several times on many things I have had to say.
Do you just make your statements up as you go along? On one of her responses to someone else’s questions, she said that poets have no need to wear masks because they simply write what is true – this from someone who wears the mask of "Princess Arwen" and conceals her true identity. You last comment is truly sickening – you speak of her as if she is some religious figure – instead of the pompous, deluded, mediocre writer that she is.
Cassie – I only count three women I call liars – which they are. Incidentally, I did not "infer" – the correct word you were looking for was "implied" – and I did not do that either. I came right out and called them liars – because they are. Incidentally, I would call a black man a black b*st*rd – if he was black and if he was a b*st*rd – to tell the truth is not to be a racist. I would also call a skinny b*st*rd a skinny b*st*rd, in the same way that I would call a fat one, a bald one, a hairy one, a greasy one, etc., exactly what they happen to be.
If a b*st*rd happens to be fat and I call him a fat b*st*rd, it does not mean I hate all fat people – same goes for if he’s skinny, lanky, speccy, greasy, ugly, hairy – or black. (Or white, yellow, red or any colour you care to mention.) I’m not into political correctness – it’s the same nonsense that says we shouldn’t send "Christmas" cards in case we offend Moslems – we should only send cards which bear the message "Season’s Greetings". We should call blackboards "chalkboards" in case we offend negroes, etc. All a complete pile of p*sh in my book.
Look at what’s getting everyone riled up here. Someone posts a poem, gets maybe a dozen responses saying things like "OMG – Amazing – You are a true poet – You are so talented", etc., etc. – then I pop up and say "It’s pants", and suddenly it’s the end of the world for that person and they’re never going to write again? Absolute b*ll*cks!
Anyone who would take offense at any of my comments (I’m not talking about the Iano impostors who are trying to stir up anti-Iano sentiment by putting words in my mouth) is not writing poems out of a love of poetry, but because they’re looking for meaningless flattery to feed their over-inflated egos and give them a sense of self-validation that they ill-deserve. The fact remains that most of the people who post poetry on Yahoo should not be encouraged – because they are absolute cr*p at it. Have you seen America’s Got Talent? Filled with people who labour under the delusion that they’re going to be "the next best thing" and then humilate themselves in front of millions of people. Why? Because their friends and loved ones didn’t have the b*lls to say "Give it up, Junior – you can’t sing/dance, juggle. etc., worth a d*mn. Either that, or they were similarly deluded about Junior’s abilities.
(Oops! Insert quotes after "d*mn" in the line above – I didn’t hit the key hard enough.)
Here’s the simple truth (again). People are posting poems on a PUBLIC FORUM and asking for opinions – I simply give them mine. The ones who get uppity about it are the ones on this page who email me with personal abuse, or call me names like "@sshole" or "b*st*rd", or publicly wish a horrible death upon me and try and start campaigns against me. Seriously, do you really believe those are the actions of rational, well-balanced, decent people? Just because I said I didn’t like their poem. Often one lone, negative response amongst others praising them to the rafters, but they focus on the one dissenting voice as an object of hate and villification. As far as I’m concerned, those people shouldn’t be allowed out by themselves.
People have to wade through mainly cr*p on Yahoo – if a humorous comment by me brings a smile to the lips of some weary traveller wading through a sea of sh*t, know what?
IT’S A JOB WELL DONE.
Freedom of speech comes with responsibility. I personally have never blocked or reported anyone. Everyone should be entitled to have their say. However, I do believe that when giving your point of view or critique, you should do so in a polite way. I don’t believe you should make people feel bad. Even if a poem is absolute crap, point them in the direction of how they can improve it, or just do not leave a comment at all. There is no need to crush peoples hopes. The person you mention above could end up by doing more harm than good even though his intentions are for a clean up job of the poetry site. My view for what it’s worth. Much more tolerance required here. May I add I don’t see the women poets causing trouble.
Edit: ( following the points you raised regarding my earlier answer).
I do not know what went on between Arwen and you. I have no knowledge whatsoever as I do not read everything on this site. All I know is that she said she left because of you and that came in the first instance, from a mutual colleague of ours.
The other point that I want to make is that on this page alone you have inferred that four women are liars.
I was educated and brought up in a background which offered encouragement and nurture to get the best out of people. I do not understand any other way. You have opposing views to mine. I also believe in telling the truth. You can tell someone their poetry isn’t any good without decimating them altogether and preventing them from even trying to improve. Also, poetry is subjective. I may feel something is actually quite pleasant and promising, when you feel it is crap. You do not appear to enjoy any free verse at all, preferring only rhyme and meter.
I am a mature woman in my 50’s with family. I know only too well how youngsters can react to put downs, it would be wrong to do this. (Note I have not accused you of it because I have not seen it with my own eyes). I was anxious when I first posted on this site and I don’t consider myself fragile. I was anxious about coming across the sort of put downs that you can give. If that had happened to me, I may not have bothered to have continued writing. I would not have known that I showed any promise (even you have acknowledged that)
Consideration of peoples feelings, cost nothing. I would by far prefer to be remembered as a person who encouraged someone to enjoy poetry than put them off it altogether.
As someone else mentioned further up, freedom of speech does not mean the freedom to abuse and create negativity. With it comes responsibility. That’s why you can’t call a black man a black b——–because it is a racist hateful remark and you would get pulled up for it. So when it boils down to it perhaps there is no such thing as complete freedom of speech because there are laws in place against racism, inciting racial hated etc.
We have very different views, but on this page thankfully are to express them.
February 5th, 2010 at 4:19 pm
"expressing their opinion on it."
It just so happens that your opinion is full of hatred and maliciousness.
You don’t seek to help people or express your opinion, you only seek to lie and spread your disease.
And:
Yes, I block you every time I see you.
No, I don’t report people.
Yes, you are lonely and suffering.
No, nobody likes you.
Yes, you are old and miserable.
No, you are not a good poet.
Yes, you have no friends.
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February 5th, 2010 at 5:01 pm
expressing yourself and censorship have always clashed,
i think you should be able to express yourself to any extent through poetry but not on YA because there is no age restriction on this site
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February 5th, 2010 at 5:45 pm
You have right to express your opinion and the person blocking and reporting you has the right to same ,it seems like both of you are exercising your respective rights.so where is the problem ?
if you make your comments more acceptable to the person blocking or reporting you,that might solve the problem.
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February 5th, 2010 at 6:33 pm
I’m with you, brother. Hail Hydra!
As for buk, no one has ever expressed more hate and malice than he himself. At least EIGHT lies alone in his response – comments on subjects he knows nothing about, prompted by his insane jealousy that Iano is a far better poet than he could ever hope to be.
And as for helping people – that’s not why you’re here, buk – you only post in order to feed your ego on the comments of the easily-impressed. It’s over, son. The fact that you block is an acknowledgment of the fact that you recognize Iano is your superior.
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February 5th, 2010 at 7:16 pm
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AoxojwTCC1QU9puguOWJ7.3ty6IX;_ylv=3?qid=20100118115651AALVxBr&show=7#profile-info-doAV26rtaa
read this answer of his
one of many millions of answers and redefine his concept of freedom
iano you must quit this ………
its not funny to insult people because you can
this is trolling
not freedom
i well stop posting from now on i will be here to report all the iano`s you made through the years
and i will be happy because i did whats right
even if my account will be deleted
i don’t care
i well be back with ten more for every account deleted until you stop bothering people with your so called freedom
there are many great poems out there
many tears and smiles
many hopes and desperations
many voices from all over the world from different cultures and ideologies in need of guidance , a helping hand or an advice on the human level away from rhymes and grammer in the classrooms
and we cant enjoy that in peace because you offend them with your so called freedom and make them leave this place for good in many cases
Now my friends and i will show you freedom …. the real thing … !
by simply reporting every insult … every dream you break under your feet
and every innocent soul you ban from expression in peace
Got it …
This is what i know of freedom and i am not letting go for your fake freedom
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Now think …
i hope you start changing because if you dont i will be there to make sure you do
February 5th, 2010 at 7:57 pm
Freedom of speech does not mean freedom to abuse others and create a negative atmosphere. I am in agreement with Rumi here. You may say what you wish (apparently unpleasantness) but it is also the other person’s freedom of choice to block you
If you care not for people’s feelings regarding their work why should you care if they block you? Unless you are an attention starved sick troll
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February 5th, 2010 at 8:34 pm
Freedom of speech as it applies to every and anything has a purpose. In the beginning there were few developments or fewer stages where this theory could play itself out. Freedom of speech as it applied to the structure of the constitution was meant to be a way of including everyone considered to be worthy of an opinion. Times have changed and situations have morphed themselves into ideas and principles that take on a life of their own. Still the purpose of freedom of speech is to have a protection clause in place. That assumption is designed to protect others from being abused for their opinions. Responses to the opinions are others can be constructive or destructive. The power of words in speech and written words can motivate and in some cases heal wounds. Behind every idea is an intention to either be supportive or critical. One persons opinion is only that.One persons opinion. We have rules for every situation. The majority of the time we have the opportunity to examine the rules before we choose to take part in whatever the activity happens to be. There we find rules and regulations that attempt in most cases to protect the rights of others. We humans can be very kind and caring and we can be cruel. We can play by the rules and we can break them. That also is a part of freedom. For the most part poetry attempts to be expressive. Still it is difficult to know the intentions of every word. But when we string those words together other people get the point being made beyond their own personal experiences. We may not always address those issues as they should be approached. But that too is a freedom and a choice. There’s plenty to read and write about and plenty of poetic room that everyone can have an opinion and a response that has the potential to create something positive. It all depends on what we want to do. Again, freedom is a purpose not an end in itself. That’s my opinion but it’s not a rule that anyone else should want to follow.
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Life
February 5th, 2010 at 9:10 pm
Meah, you know how I feel.
I’ve seen you write poems, I have seen you help people, I have also seen you drive people away from here. If you are as mighty as you would have me believe, some of the things you say should be beneath you. Imagine an Olympic runner ridiculing children on sports day, laughing because their laces have come undone, when you could be showing them how to tie them properly, or just biting your tongue.
I don’t want to see you driven out either, but how many users do we lose, to keep you?
This is a community & it looks like the people have spoken, pitchforks & flaming torches, it’s time to repent.
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February 5th, 2010 at 9:33 pm
Yes you have a very heavy case of Yahoo Answers morality on your hands well done.
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February 5th, 2010 at 9:59 pm
creative writing should not be read by a person if it is offensive that person, and I find it acceptable to express your own dislike of a piece, because more often than not, doing that encourages people to read it. Writing should not be controlled by anyone other than the writer, and the same is true of reading. Poetry often makes a statement that many agree with, but are either unwilling or unable to agree with. Someone will disagree with each thing anybody says or writes, but freedom of expression must be protected in writing.
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February 5th, 2010 at 10:26 pm
Well up to a point i would say as many here come on to get their feet wet in poetry and many are kids of 13 14 and a little above and when they pour their hearts out in a poem and some loser tells them they suck or give it up it’s all wrong as making a person feel like crap is not free speech of any kind.My son wrote a good poem a few times here and you lano told him how horrible he was and that he should never write again and he did just that.He got depressed and wondered why this lano guy is so hateful and what he has done to deserve this’ and the poem was about his dad who had just died 3 days before the poem…There are others like you but you should know better as you have to have seen the hurt you cause many here’ by kids’ women and others.If they’re grown like me then we can take it and shake it off’ but kids cannot and many this is the only way they can express themselves as at home there like a prisoner’ without a voice.Try not to be so cruel’ especially when they say hi i’m 13 this is my first poem’ what do you think..It doesn’t hurt to be kind Lano and maybe someone will give you a break as well like the man upstairs..
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Just my opinion and 2 cents.
February 5th, 2010 at 11:09 pm
Dirty Ian was never a poet
He only had a big nose
He never wrote a sonnet
Or even a good sad prose
All what he was good at
Was being a nasty rat
He sat fire to peoples’ dream
Like a plug on minds, a hot fart’s steam
Block him in a hurry
As soon as you read his name
Like a winter pirate with hand full of pain
He swore to drive all the kind people insane
I don’t care if he is wise or nuts
All I know he brought poetry people pain
Silly comments and much disrespect
His lack of morals his soul to reflect
Wrong is wrong and correct is correct
Many of those who came here to seek
A wise saying, a smile, a tear, or just break
Ran away in silence as soon as they saw the freak
I
Golden man: Its time for me to take stand
Report his a.ss out of this peace full land
I will do it alone if you don’t give me hand
I am just posting this so you understand
how do you like my freedom poem Iano ?
shall i write more ?
what do you think ? ….
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10 more are comming at you for the one you just reported
have fun while i enjoy following you like a shadow till you leave these trolling accounts and come back as a respectable person … or like i said before >>>>> change your name to Nadia
: 0 )
February 5th, 2010 at 11:40 pm
I will have to agree with many especially dark angel as i too have seen many pretty nasty messages which were far from pretty where you tore kids to shreds when you should of been aspiring like many of us here always do.Even on my worse days i always have kind words to say as the strangers who i answered had no deeds in making my life miserable so why would i do it to them.Free speech is a great thing’ but being rude and hurtful is not and i hope you will open your self up to some compassion.Maybe people were rude and cruel to you before but it was not dark Angels son ‘ or the 14 yr old girl who lost her grandma’ so please change your tune if you can..Thanks..Lori D
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February 5th, 2010 at 11:54 pm
I’m afraid you’re lying through your teeth "Dark Angel" – you don’t even sound old enough to be a mother. Show this poem by your son of which you speak, and my alleged comments on it. I would never comment on a poem about personal bereavement from a child. (Unless it was so badly written that it was not obvious what it was about.)
However, regardless of anyone’s age, if they post a poem asking for people’s opinions on it – they need to learn to take the rough with the smooth. I’ve seen comments by kids to other kids’ poems that are far harsher then anything I could ever say. Most normal, well-balanced people have a sense of humour about those things – only the socially inadequate with fragile egos would get upset over the comments of a stranger.
If you only want to hear nice things about your efforts, show them to your family and friends. If you post and ask for an opinion, I’ll give you one. Honesty is the best compliment I can pay you.
Lori – you meant "inspiring", not "aspiring". I don’t believe it does anyone any good to encourage mediocrity by praising something when it is undeserving. If it’s mince, I’ll say it’s mince. And if you think that’s "nasty", you need to grow up.
Oh, Red Pill – do as you like – it doesn’t bother me, but everyone can see how insanely obsessive you are. Oh, how I laugh.
"Aragorn" (oh, how I laugh) – "revolution"? You are doomed to failure before you start. As for being a gentleman – considering you publicly posted a lie about me and called me a "b*st*rd", your actions betray the lie of your claim. You cannot defeat the undefeatable, so stop making public spectacles of yourselves.
Cassie, you can’t be looking too hard then. Arwen publicly accusing me of reporting her poems when I have never reported even one, Dark Angel making unfounded and unsubstantiated allegations about me, and Baby’s Blues telling outright lies about me in her responses. Trust a woman to turn it into a gender thing.
As for your other comments – people need to learn to accept responsibility for their own actions. If they post a poem on a PUBLIC FORUM and ask for comments, they must be prepared to be told it’s rotten if indeed it is – if they can’t handle it, they shouldn’t post. I’m not here to cater to fragile personalities who can’t deal with reality – I’m here to give an honest opinion, which is the best courtesy I can afford someone. If they don’t like it, they are free to disregard it, but to argue that they should be spared from hearing negative – even harsh – criticism is ridiculous. Do you know why there is so much bad poetry on this site? Because people are encouraged to write bad poetry by misleading and inaccurate "positive" feedback. If someone can’t write, but is too stupid to know, don’t worry – I’LL TELL ‘EM. And if they had an ounce of smarts, they’d realize I’m doing them a favour.
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February 6th, 2010 at 12:21 am
Being pleasant while instructive/constructive with your comments never hurt anyone. On the contrary, it returns much better results. People receive a kind message easier instead of automatically being injected with the poison you ooze, and turning on their defensive mechanism. It is human nature to react negatively to harsh/negative words.
A great teacher does not beat his pupils on the head with books to try and teach them. He teaches with excellence, class, love, and propriety. Kindness always wins! It is all in the psychology you use.
This is why this "revolution" of sorts is taking place now. People got tired of being "taught" or "advised" the wrong way by you. You used all the wrong methods.
Perhaps this "tough love" or wrong psychology was used on you as a child, by ignorant parents or teachers, but it does not work on most people, and it is certainly not healthy nor productive in the end.
Accept defeat like a gentleman for once, and bow down and walk away gracefully, or at least offer some apologies. Take it as a lesson learned.
Much luck !
——————————————————-
Just adding: Arwen and others left because of the negative atmosphere you created here. YOU, were the one who from the beginning followed her poems around and anyone who commented positively on them and then left nasty comments not only on her, but on anything they wrote as well.
Who is the envious one?
Apparently you could not deal with the fact that so many were enjoying her romantic poems or positive outlook on life.
Yes, like many others in this place she was hoping to find something refreshing outside the world and impart help and encouragement to those who needed it. Not bring anyone down.
This is apparently something that is beyond your grasp. You are a sour person and it shows in your actions.
**As far as my personal comment to you. I never called you a Bas**ard. That was someone else. I called you a "wretched commoner". I stand by that. If that means the same to you, then so be it. You behave as one, you earn the title.
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A gentleman. A knight. A friend to Arwen. NO, I am not one of Golden Seaman’s accounts. I’ve never even corresponded with the man. This is my only account. We are obviously just both friends to Arwen and here to take a stand for those who have been ill treated in a section which should be something better. Arwen has never and will never bother herself to comment on anything you have to say. You are too negative. She has no room for that in her world.
She only wishes you peace, love, and enlightenment. That has been and always will be her message to the world.
February 6th, 2010 at 12:48 am
the answer lies not in the question you ask
but in the question that presents itself.
all opinons in my opinion draw a bridge
you have two options:
either cross it and join the observer on the other side
or stay where you are and respect the distance between.
I may be young but this is what I believe.
My opinion on this question.
I think the thumbs down actually confirm your observation.
lol……..some are opinions yet they receive multiple thumbs down.
as i will more than likely.
thanks for sharing.
i love a good question to get
the juices flowing in my mind,.
refreshing this i find.
wow that rhymed
EDIT: To Iano-explain to me..in your great wisdom..
aren’t two opinions like rams during mating season?
striving to win the heart of "right" yet the situation
that their opinions build their foundation on is still
of its own independent nature. It is not dependent
upon an opinion in order to maintain its subjective
validity. To me, I believe constructive criticism but
i also believe in no sugar-coating. meaning that i
won’t set someone up for complete failure by only
telling them what they want to hear but i am also
not going to berate them with full-blown negativity.
I give them a strong cup of sweet tea
and I also give them a package of salt
now it is up to them to decide whether they would
like to mix the salt in with the tea or
leave it as it is. They did not ask me for
the cup of tea yet as it is my prerogative
to fix them this cup of tea, sparing my own time
i can choose whether ultimately it is sweet
or if it is somewhat sour and grungy.
though the taste still is subjective to whoever
drinks from the cup am i right?
but what do i know.
i’m just a teenage boy.
im oblivious.
EDIT: wow this forum is epic lol..so many answers so many back and forth..when yahoo answers became a tennis court..wimbeldon doesn’t stand a chance.
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February 6th, 2010 at 1:11 am
Freedom of speech comes with responsibility. I personally have never blocked or reported anyone. Everyone should be entitled to have their say. However, I do believe that when giving your point of view or critique, you should do so in a polite way. I don’t believe you should make people feel bad. Even if a poem is absolute crap, point them in the direction of how they can improve it, or just do not leave a comment at all. There is no need to crush peoples hopes. The person you mention above could end up by doing more harm than good even though his intentions are for a clean up job of the poetry site. My view for what it’s worth. Much more tolerance required here. May I add I don’t see the women poets causing trouble.
Edit: ( following the points you raised regarding my earlier answer).
I do not know what went on between Arwen and you. I have no knowledge whatsoever as I do not read everything on this site. All I know is that she said she left because of you and that came in the first instance, from a mutual colleague of ours.
The other point that I want to make is that on this page alone you have inferred that four women are liars.
I was educated and brought up in a background which offered encouragement and nurture to get the best out of people. I do not understand any other way. You have opposing views to mine. I also believe in telling the truth. You can tell someone their poetry isn’t any good without decimating them altogether and preventing them from even trying to improve. Also, poetry is subjective. I may feel something is actually quite pleasant and promising, when you feel it is crap. You do not appear to enjoy any free verse at all, preferring only rhyme and meter.
I am a mature woman in my 50’s with family. I know only too well how youngsters can react to put downs, it would be wrong to do this. (Note I have not accused you of it because I have not seen it with my own eyes). I was anxious when I first posted on this site and I don’t consider myself fragile. I was anxious about coming across the sort of put downs that you can give. If that had happened to me, I may not have bothered to have continued writing. I would not have known that I showed any promise (even you have acknowledged that)
Consideration of peoples feelings, cost nothing. I would by far prefer to be remembered as a person who encouraged someone to enjoy poetry than put them off it altogether.
As someone else mentioned further up, freedom of speech does not mean the freedom to abuse and create negativity. With it comes responsibility. That’s why you can’t call a black man a black b——–because it is a racist hateful remark and you would get pulled up for it. So when it boils down to it perhaps there is no such thing as complete freedom of speech because there are laws in place against racism, inciting racial hated etc.
We have very different views, but on this page thankfully are to express them.
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February 6th, 2010 at 1:38 am
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AsxiMHTPFLo_.Hops6DAxjWn5HNG;_ylv=3?qid=20100201202750AAO2Tzc
will be back after a week from now and read every answer posted and decide if you are going to be my friend or my enemy now that the poetry people have spoken and you have heard
the least of them is a better poet than i am and out of respect for them i will leave for a week then come back and believe it or not if you change to a new respectable kind account may be i will find you and congratulate you for the better man you became….
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peace for now !
February 6th, 2010 at 1:55 am
Look dude! the only person here defending you is you. That says a lot! Nobody likes ya! Get over it and dont be so sensitive if people block ya! How can you blame them?
From your comments about yourself you DO sound like an arrogant, egotistical & envious person.
A case of the nut thinking everyone else is nuts. I bet you think you can do no wrong! You are perfect or better than everyone else in the world, right? The other person is the one who lies, never you. Oh no!
You made your own bed, now lie in it! or read some self improvement books and be a better man.
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The people have spoken
February 6th, 2010 at 2:36 am
“With freedom comes responsibility” means that we cannot expect that person who just posted his poem to know what a perfect poem is. But post that person will and he should be rewarded for it. It takes a lot of courage and hard work to post. Even the most crappy poem deserves some bit of respect.
Nasty comments do not work for everyone. In fact it hardly works at all. To get rid of bad poetry on this site requires a lot of patience, encouragement and diplomacy – there is no other way. Nasty comments , even in a PUBLIC FORUM, are only a waste of the critic’s time and energy. It is true that not everyone is naturally suited for poetry, which makes it the more foolish for the critic to tell him off. A true genius will first look for the merits and avoid hurting other people because he knows what karma can do.
A true critic is finally a gentleman. I have learned a lot from both Peter and Buk and I want to learn as well from you, and I hate, absolutely hate what’s happening to this forum. Please let us shake hands and forgive each other like true gentlemen and…start over.
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February 6th, 2010 at 3:23 am
I have none here; that is my opinion and that’s why I’ve left… for good.
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February 6th, 2010 at 4:12 am
Mr Iano, truth is, you have no life. Get one before you think you have any freedom at all. You are an asshole trapped in a man’s body (I think it’s a man).
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